After introducing us to Tam and Rand al’Thor in last week’s #WOTWednesday, The Wheel of Time showrunner Rafe Judkins has tweeted another page from the pilot script. It’s a note, but a significant one that provides insight into how the series will approach casting:
[A QUICK NOTE: race in the world of Wheel of Time is much less defined than in our world.
As much as possible, our cast should look like America will in a few hundred years—a beautiful mix of white, brown, black and everything in between]
Hey! Sorry (especially to non-US folks) for the lateness on this. But this #WoTWednesday I thought I’d give another script grab — this time about casting. Actual casting is a long way off, but this at least gives you an idea of how we are thinking about it in a general sense. pic.twitter.com/MAGI381ExZ
— Rafe Judkins (@rafejudkins) August 30, 2018
Judkins later clarified that different cities in the world of the series will trend toward certain demographics:
For sure. Fal Dara will look more East Asian, you’ll see plenty of gingers in the Waste, etc ;)
— Rafe Judkins (@rafejudkins) August 30, 2018
The Wheel of Time is currently in development at Amazon Studios.
Having some sort of cultural look for the more isolated places may be important for realizim, but I can’t think of a good reason why they need to find thousands of 6′ 6″ red-headed ninjas with light eyes and fair skin to play the Aiel. As far as the rest of the less isolated areas, who cares? Mix it up. People don’t have to look like they do in the books. Rand being tall is only important if all Aiel have to be tall.
It’s true. Some countries tend towards darker or fairer populations but there’s plenty of overlap. We do know that fair or red hair is relatively uncommon.
The only potential downside is that it might hinder quick visual cultural identities and cues; thought that is not an insurmountable one and much can be done with dress, costume, accents and patterns of speech.
Here’s a blast from the past. A cast list the fandom had voted on circa 1999-2000:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010414014525/http://stonedog.org:80/wot/castsurvey.htm
At Anthony, but Rand being tall was a big issue. It made him stand out from the rest of the Two Rivers people, along with the red hair. How many times in the first three books was he told “You are as tall as an Aiel.” ? So yes, the Aiel will need to be tall. Or at least taller than the average Cairhien.
Thanks for the link. What a throw back! Now all the actors picked as the main 6 would be too old. But I totally disagree with Faile as Sharah Michelle Gellar, at any age. Her noise was never “bold” enough.
And as one person in showbiz pointed out in a different thread – this script will go before studio executives. So they need a 2 second outline of what to expect – which is what this is.
The casting agent will get much fuller descriptions.
If they’re going to make Randland ‘look like America’ somewhat over half will be ‘white’. Which I think is wrong. I get the impression that in Randland darker skins are the majority. Andor and Cairhien seem to have the most ‘white’ population while everybody else tends to brown.
@6:
It specifically says “America in a few hundred years.” Depending on your source, America is currently 61% white. Its difficult to track for sure, because the Census Bureau has changed what it tracks over the years, and currently, people who identify separately as hispanic can be of any of the five races that are tracked.
@5:
My point was, there are other ways to distinguish Rand as different (and Aiel) than him being “tall”. And it begs the question — is it even important that people outside of the Two Rivers think Rand is “Aiel” before we meet them? That’s a nice little world-building touch, but not really necessary, and about a million little touches like that are going to need to be dropped in any TV show that isn’t going to run 250 episodes. And if we’re lucky, we might get 60 episodes of this show.
I’m just wondering if its important enough to handicap the casting over, rather than just hiring the best people for the job.
@1: 6 1/2″ red-headed people
Pretty sure you meant to write 6 1/2′ NOT 6 1/2″, right? Otherwise, we’re inventing maybe a new race of faerie-land folk/?
@9:
Nice catch. I’ll go back and edit it.
I find it strange that after hundreds if not thousands of books being adapted into film, that people still pick out specific physical characteristics as mattering. People can have different heights, hair colors, facial features, skin tones, etc. as long as those things aren’t vitally important to the plot. Even if they somewhat are relevant in the book, it’s very easy to just scrap that from the story because the film moves at a faster pace and can show things visually rather than having to describe them in such detail. For example, Rand doesn’t have to be abnormally tall and red haired because that makes him stand out as an Aiel. Just don’t have the Aiel be distinctly tall and red-haired in the show. Distinguish them by their clothes and behavior. Problem solved. You can still have it revealed at the appropriate time that he is descended from Aiel without having characters mentioning that he looks like one and the payoff would be the same.
As far as race goes, I’m pretty sure it would be easy to keep Randland on a spectrum. Andor would be “light” but not necessarily white. After all, Rand sticks out in the Two Rivers because of both his height and his fair coloring. Everyone else is dark haired and dark eyed, but probably still fairly light skinned. That gives room to cast POC while still fitting the overall “feel” of the region. Tear and, say, Arad Doman are definitely on the browner end of the spectrum, so middle eastern, Jewish, black and African actors would be more in line with those areas while still leaving room for Mediterranean or white actors as well. I’ve always envisioned places like Cairhien and definitely the Borderlands to be a mix of Asian (Faile as Mongol/Caucasian, Moiraine as fair skinned Japanese) and white (can we get Ming Na Wen in 14th century French style clothing please??) Which also allows for a wide range of skin color in both the main cast and the extras who populate the world. I’m really looking forward to this, to be honest. I just hope the races of the actors aren’t drummed too hard, either by the show itself or the fans. :/
@11, 12:
I’m sure the show isn’t going to worry over it, but I’d be completely shocked if there wasn’t already a #NotMyRand hashtag floating around out there already, lol.
Aiel are a small, very isolated, very specific ethnicity.
I believe that light hair and light eyes should be a must, because its pretty specifically spelled out that its who they are.
Aviendha specifically states, several times, she never even seen dark eyes until she left the waste.
That said I don’t think they should all be red haired, I think its more realistic it would range from sandy blonde to light brown.
But Aiel are very much an exception and not a rule.
If anything in any world depicting a very future one, even (or especially) a very future (and very past) Europe, white people should be less than half of the population.
I’m looking forward to watching this show.
I just want to see the Seanchen talking with a Texas drawl ;)
In that case, maybe Ron Weasley should play Rand :)
@@@@@ 11
But things like Masema hating Rand have everything to do with how he looks. Masema hates Aiel, for reasons (conflicts between Shienarans and Aiel). He’s racist against them. When he sees one of the Two Rivers boys looking like an Aiel, he mistreats him, even though he couldn’t be more culturally from the Two Rivers and less Aiel if he wanted (Rand knows jackshit about Aiel culture at this time, and he never fully becomes one, even when he becomes car’a’carn or Aviendha’s boyfriend). This is actually a good point about racism, and how people whose ancestors weren’t white and have assimilated into North America / Western Europe are still seem as “others” due to how they look, rather than how they behave or think. It’s a shock to Rand, because he had never been mistreated because of how he looked. It’s a shock to some people, who grow up in more cosmopolitan areas and then meet bigots for the first time, to be treated as an “other” just for how they look.
I think that there actually are regions with different ethnic groups in the WoT is one of the weaknesses in its worldbuilding. After the breaking and considering that everyone speaks the same language, a more or less “homogenous” population of people with mixed ethnical origins would make much more sense…
@17:
The argument isn’t that the books don’t make good use of this stuff, its that things like Masema hating Rand and then becoming the Prophet of the Lord Dragon aren’t really important when you distill the WoT down to its fundamentals, which is what any adaptation will by necessity need to achieve. There isn’t going to be room to tell the story the way RJ did in the new medium. For starter, even if we get something like 7 seasons of 10-12 episodes, that would only be able to cover half the content in three times the amount of time (the books take place over 2.5 to 3 years). That in itself will affect the narrative.
What characters, or even whole ethnicities, look like isn’t really important to what the story is trying to say. Being aligned in spirit with Robert Jordan’s work is more important to me than what the characters look like. And I’m really, really worried on that front.
I’ll be pretty disappointed if they cast anyone against their very detailed descriptions. Randland is very diverse as described, making changes to fill some kind of ‘quota’ is just not needed.
If this thing gets green lit and we get 60 plus episodes… I’m going to be very excited… There are going to be compromises on skin tones and hair in this production… The isolated communities should be a bit like described in the books… For the Aiel, maybe they will make a call for reddish haired extras who are tall… and they will dye the hair for the main characters… In casting for LOTR they divided the extras into tall and short and narrow vs wide and gave them roles as elves (tall and narrow) and orokai?(tall and broad) and orcs (not tall)… but hair and skin tone aside… if you make Perrin a 5’3″ dude that tips the scale at 120 lbs… that might disappoint me…. He could be 5’8″ and 180 lbs… I would be fine with that.
I hope they consult with someone who can help them make wise decisions when it comes to the distillation process. Imagine the forums if the production team chooses to focus on Masema and the PLOD. LOL.
If I were a betting man, here’s the things I would bet make it in for sure:
• The party that leaves Emond’s Field is exactly the same.
• Whitecloaks will function the same in the early books.
• Thom will save the boys in Whitebridge and they’ll think he’s dead.
• The garden scene in Caemlyn will happen almost exactly as written, introducing both Elayne and Elaida.
• Perrin will be a wolfbrother, Mat will get the dagger.
• They’ll all end up in Fal Dara, and the Eye of the World.
• Padan Fain will be largely unchanged.
• The Tower Split will happen, but be massively changed dues to character consolidation.
I think the first book will be adapted fairly straight. Its the rest that worries me.
Things that are on the bubble:
• Min and her visions (any necessary vision related plotlines can go to Egwene and/or Perrin.)
• Rand’s three ladies as a plotline.
• The Seanchan in their entirety.
Things that are out:
• Forsaken body switching
• The Prophet’s army (there may be a prophet, but its not going to consume anywhere near the space int he narrative it does now.)
• Many of the various Forsaken (character consolidation will require there being less than 13 who get screentime.)
• Shara coming in at the very end.
Things I’d like to see changed from the books, and how I’d like them to play out:
• I would make Taimandred actually be a thing, and replace the Seanchan with the Sharans. We don’t need even one surprise army at the end, much less the two we get.
• Have the Black Ajah remove Egwene to Shara instead, to be forced there. And you can set them up better for the end of the series that way. Call it Seanchan for all I care, just don’t have the continental invasion, and don’t have surprise armies materialize for the end of the series.
• Have the Shaido make a deal with the Tower Aes Sedai and not betray them, but be eliminated as a threat and a plotline immediately at Dumai’s Wells. I mean, I get what RJ was going for. A broken enemy can still be annoying and cost lives, but the way the PLOD dragged on just can’t happen in the TV series. Have the Asha’man crush the Shaido as a demonstration of sickening Power.
• No Forsaken Resurrections. This isn’t Pac-man.
• Consequently, no Moiraine resurrection either. Sorry Thom, maybe we can get you back together with Morgase instead?
• No Moiraine resurrection means no need for the Aelfinn or Eelfinn, either. We can go back to Mat and the Old Blood, and the dagger can somehow chew enough holes in his memories to allow those battle memories to slip through.
• ISAM is necessary, but I’d play up the connections between Rand, Luc, Isam and Lan a whole lot more, and make Slayer more integral to the overarching plot.
• NO CADSUANE. After Moiraine’s death, Nynaeve can be the Moiraine replacement for Rand. She ends up fulfilling that role down the line anyway.
• Deal with Fain before the Last Battle, or make him an integral part of how the Dark One is re-imprisoned, I don’t have fully-formed ideas on this.
• Verin LIVES! Swap Verin in for Moiraine during the final confrontation.
@23
I could live with most of that, but removing the Seanchan changes too many elements that I think are integral to the story (Daughter of the Nine Moons, Sul’dam / Damane, the attack on the tower, wiping out the White Cloaks, occupying the South West, Mat’s growth, the Dragon’s Peace, etc.). Some of those pieces could be removed, but not the whole.
@25 I’d also cut the Sharans way, WAY before the Seanchan, because otherwise despite this casting notice we’re in major danger of. . .”the army of EVIL shows up and they’re all black-skinned”. Ugh. No. Plus, besides all the plot elements you mention, if you cut out the Seanchan you’ve just removed one of the central elements of the theme of autonomy v. compulsion that unifies the whole series.
I really don’t want to lose the ‘Finn either. One thing that will really help distinguish this series from GoT is Jordan’s talent for creeping supernatural horror (as opposed to “people really suck” horror). Without the ‘Finn you’ve lost a major source of dark-fairy-tale, slow-burning, stomach-churning eldritch stuff and I think the tone would be badly harmed. However, I would be ALL FOR losing the Happy Harem. Though if Min doesn’t make the cut I’d much rather see Rand with Aviendha. Except for the one scene Brandon wrote for them in AMoL, I never bought Rand/Elayne as anything but a shallow teen crush.
@@@@@ 23
Robert Jordan once said that when someone asked him to describe Wheel of Time in 6 words, he answered “Cultures clash, worlds change — cope. I know it’s only five, but I hate to be wordy”. This is the core of Wheel of Time, according to him. I think he wouldn’t like one of the cultures he dedicated a lot of time to flesh out, Seanchan, to not appear in the story as he intended (with some cultural baggage that we associate with evil, like slavery and police state, but that fights on the side of Good in the end). Actually I think if one culture should disappear it would be Shara, since it “appears” only at the end. Have Demandred only lead trollocs and Dreadlords. It’s not like there’s a Sharan character that needs to appear in the show, since even Brandon Sanderson didn’t decide to put their POVs in the series.
More on the comment I made above: Jordan dedicated a lot of time in later books to show characters cooperating with the Seanchan. Like Perrin making a deal with them to attack the Shaido or Mat courting Tuon. He had Rand ask for a truce with them even after the first meeting was a ruse for Semirhage’s attack. What I’m trying to get is that for Jordan that uneasy alliance with the Seanchan was an important point to the story, of how the characters needed to ally with a small evil to defeat ultimate evil.
Also, it’d be difficult to explain Egwene’s ascension to Amyrlin Seat of the unified White Tower without the Seanchan attack. You lose not only a core element of the series, you lose good kick-ass scenes. It’s OK to lose the plotline of doom of Perrin rescuing Faile, nobody puts any scene of that in the top 10 of the series, but Egwene leading the Tower’s defense and being seen as a leader even while she’s a captive, getting revenge on the Seanchan while using Vora’s sa’angreal, that’s a kick-ass scene (so much that it’s the covers of one of the ebooks).
Rule of thumb: make changes in the series, but don’t take out good kick-ass or dramatic scenes. I’m OK with Black Ajah hunters disappearing completeley from the story, for example (Brandon Sanderson never used them correctly).
In a Seanchan we have a ethnically diverse, sexually egalitarian culture that is totally unadmirable. Too confusing for TV?
@29 Presumably some significant proportion of viewers for this series have read Ann Leckie and Yoon Ha Lee? If so, they’ll hardly be unfamiliar with “ethnically diverse, sexually egalitarian, morally vacuous imperialist culture”. Probably OK on that point, though it’s worth raising.
I know it’s fun to speculate on all this stuff, but we’ll be lucky for every recognizable trait from the books that we get. Show writers often use tentpole techniques when adapting books where they pick out 6-8 major plot events from the book, make sure they hit those, and then just kinda fill in the rest with whatever. I haven’t seen anything to indicate yet that this show is trying to be as close of an approximation to the books as possible. So while people might be bummed if a character doesn’t have the right hair or skin color, you should probably be more worried that they even go to the same destinations and have the same story arc as the book, or if it’s not a main, main, main character then be worried that they will even exist at all. Sorry if that’s being a pessimist about it, but history is on my side.
@30, It’s not the viewers, it’s the network suits. They are usually a decade or two behind the curve.
I definitely don’t envy the job of distilling this down to the ‘essence’ of what the story is about. Especially as every reader probably has their own idea as to what that is. I don’t even know what I would leave out. I found myself really bristling at some of Anthony’s omissions, but also nodding in agreement with some others. I could totally do without the Berelain/Faile drama. And you might be able to excise some of the drama around the Kin, the second weather crisis, the Bowl of the Winds and maybe even the Sea Folk (although that’s leaving out one of the cultures that populated RJ’s world). I wonder if Tylin will make it in.
I do think the Seanchan are necessary as a threat and plot mover though, as well as important character development for Egwene, Mat, etc.
@33:
Lol. I literally forgot the Kin’s existence until you mentioned them. And it reminded me of something else that will likely need to go: the Ageless look. So, being bound to the Oath rod won’t be making Aes Sedai look Ageless. I wonder if they’ll signal the binding another way, or just drop the whole lifespan-shortening plotline entirely? Likely the latter.
I understand when you adapt something from a book to a screen, whether it’s a tv or movie screen, things are always inevitably cut/changed by necessity. My only advice is be mindful what you’re cutting/changing. If done properly this series has the potential to go on for quite sometime. If not it’ll be as big of a flop as Legend of the Seeker was. If you forget it was based off of such a spectacular series then it was decent, but otherwise not so much. And the possibility that the same thing that happened to Sword of Truth will happen to WoT really worries me.
Eragon failed because they changed it too much and ruined it instead of getting 4-5 movies out of it.
Allegiant killed the Divergent series because of their “creative license” that made it so far from the book as to almost be unrecognizable. Someone mentioned the tentpole theory. Hit the main people and places and fill in the rest with “hey this will be cool” No…. that will be very not cool. Just dont. Please.
There are obviously plenty of other examples of book-screen adaptation failures. But then there’s shows like GoT that’s on its 8th season that was based on a book series and Supernatural that’s on its 14th season and counting and will hit their 300 episode midseason. Although not based on books it does show how long a good series can last. Can you just imagine 300 episodes of WoT? Please do it properly.
the WOT series is epic in nature, with the books taking years to come out. During those years, readers began building characters and scene layout in their minds eye about how the world “looked”. Before making any drastic departures from the written story line; I would gather a fairly representative group of readers and analyze the top rewrites and/or casting thoughts. Too radical a departure from what people feel a place or person “is” runs the risk of potential viewers saying “pfffff”. Not worth it, I’ll just read the books again.
I’m all in favor of diversity but some things really need to be kept as they are. Like Rand’s height. It’s as much a part of his character as his reddish hair, or the herons on his palms, or the dragons on his arms. All you need to do is look at the mess Altered Carbon turned into to see why some things shouldn’t be changed. Quellchrist Falconer was no more a stack tech scientist than she was black, for example, and the screenwriters totally messed up with making her a sudden would-be destroyer of immortality. Her entire military and social philosophy was based on the idea that revolutions need to occur over and over again when the oppressors at the top get too powerful and greedy, and those at the bottom are being stomped upon. The idea was to be like unto the plant (quellchrist frond)after which she took her name, a plant that was resourceful enough that when all the things it needed to survive locally were gone, that it would go dormant, and allow wind and wave to take it to a more resource rich place where in time it would regrow, strong as before. This series really should be looked at as a cautionary tale against changing an author’s vision too far. I highly doubt there’ll be a season 2, and tbh, I’m not sure I’d wanna watch it if there were, it was that bad compared to the source material.
TWoT has a lot of room to add to the story by making the cast more racially diverse, and I hope they go ahead and diversify it. The way in which they do this needs to be with all due sensitivity to not just the source material, but it also must be done in ways that make actual sense. People also need to remember ( for all its many faults) the vast popularity of WoT has world wide, and know going in to the process that too much change will alienate a pretty huge fan base.
While I hope the story can be made well, I have my doubts. A movie series would not only be too long and arduous, not to mention too fatiguing on the actors chosen (who but a new face would want to be contractually obligated to do 12+ sequels?) and I fear a television show would drag on too long as well. This is, after all, a very lengthy tale we’re talking about, and a whole lot of deep cuts will need to be made in terms of story, sheer volumes of actors to be cast, and the budget is going to require a whole lot of dough for special effects as well. Saidar and saidin usage alone will be very expensive, probably 10+ times a larger budget than Game of Thrones, which in turn will mean fewer $ for the actors, a much smaller cast, and entire chunks of storyline and the required characters for these omitted parts.
If you ask me, and no one did/is/will be asking me, I would scrap a live actor project in favor of a series of animated features. Easier, less expensive, and I think the One Power at work would look freakin’ awesome in this format. The battles versus the Forsaken would sure look amazing and would need no paring, imo. Plus, with no real horses required, the set would smell much better too.
Where is the discussion which breed of horse Bela needs to be?
WoT is already diverse, the characters just need to be cast the way they are described in the books.
As long as the Seanchan don’t have a Texas drawl XD
I enjoyed reading all of your comments above. After reading the WoT books years ago, I am now currently listening to the audio books. This revisit to Randland has reminded me of what an incredibly daunting task it would be to portray this vastly detailed story properly . . . which is why I think it won’t happen. As stated above, we will be lucky if the show includes some of the main story arcs with a fair amount of detail and accuracy. Many of the aspects of the WoT that we hold dear will be cast aside due to complexity or content overload. Hopefully, the core elements will be included, along with a good cast of actors. Besides, what percentage of viewers will have read the books? I think a lot of successful shows based on books, such as GoT, are popular because they are presented well and not because all of the viewers have read the books and agree that the show accurately represents the books.
One change I would make is to not have Perrin and Faile get married when they do in the books. Have there relationship grow slower, so that it doesn’t culminate in marriage until after the PLOD
Oh, Light!
Anthony (@@.-@, @23 and @34)
Light burn me, but how many of those actors could still play those parts or others with minimal juggling. I reckon Michael Wincott would make an even better Shaidar Harran now than he would have done then!
Cont:
I do agree with a lot of what you think should be dropped, or at least considered for dropping. Sharan’s, for example, are completely redundant. They’re mentioned less than half a dozen times in 13 books and then just turn up at TLB. I think not. The Kin, like the Sharan’s, are totally unnecessary.
Losing Elyas makes some sense as Isam is fairly important at the end and can be brought forwards to cover some of the ‘mentor’ aspects for Perrin before a “Sudden, but inevitable betrayal!” style heelturn.
Dropping Min and give her viewings to Perrin and the Dreamers, as Anthony suggested, is sensible. You can also give them the foretellings the Aelfin and Eelfin would have had, opening space to drop the ‘elves’, which would mean not needing ‘Doorways’ too, though I somewhat agree with @26 that it would be a sad loss.
Matt’s Ashanderai, scars and his memories can easily be acquired by other means (Somebody else can hang Matt and take his eye, and the Old Blood can fill his head with ancient memories).
No ‘Doorways’ means we can drop that scene in Tear. We don’t need to have Moiraine kill/attack Lanfear at all, unless you really, really want and even then, Verin and Nynaeve can easily cover Moiraine and Cadsuane’s roles later on, so those two are still not required.
You can also have the Mydraal actually kill Thom in Whitebridge, and just introduce Noal earlier (Thom and Morgase reconciling is an awful idea, BTW, better to kill them both off completely. In fact, Morgase being caught by Friendly Fire during Rand and Rahvin’s scrap in the palace would be awesome. Even better for Rand’s story than Moiraine sacrificing herself to save him from Lanfear, especially if he doesn’t realise what he’s done till after the fight).
Cont:
I agree with @25, @26 and @27 regarding the Seanchan. They’re far too important to too many character’s arcs and the plot as a whole to drop them, though there’s plenty can be cut away without losing them entirely.
On the Forsaken, you could probably combine Graendahl and Lanfear, and then do the same with Rahvin and Taimandred too, but there was a reason they were twelve. Don’t know what’s wrong with the Forsaken’s resurrections either; I’d love to keep Osan’Gar and Aran’Gar, not least because they’re the closest WoT comes to Transexual representation, but also just really fun characters to watch.
Of course, we’ll probably lose proportionately more TeamEvil POV than any other, and proportionately less from TeamRand than TeamPerrin, TeamTower or Team#Mittens4Mattrim, assuming we don’t lose all the TeamEvil POV’s entirely. I’d be happy with losing the Prologues.
@26. You have complete agreement with me on the Happy Harem. Drop Min and give her viewings to Egwene and Perrin (as Anthony suggested), and either keep Elayne and Rand’s fling as a stupid teenage crush thing, or have her shack up with somebody else (an especially good idea given the incestuous nature of that relationship, IMHO, and there are plenty of handsome Guardsmen around to ‘take the fall’, like Tallanvor for instance).
Lastly, an observation: whilst this takes place in about 2.5 – 3 years in Randland time, I think I remember reading that Randland years are a little longer than ours, and more regular, so this could probably be stretched to 4 years. However, seeing how 3 is a more favoured number in the studios I suspect that’s what we’ll get. Still hoping to see seasons of 22, 25, 30 and 37 episodes (ascending length or descending, don’t care) and ending with 114 episodes.
Min is one of the major characters of the series. Robert Jordan wrote her to be not only one of Rand’s lovers, but also one of the very few characters whom Rand trusts completely throughout the series. Min really ought not be cut from any televised adaptation of the series.
@46:
Which relationship do you find incestuous? Rand and Elayne? I’m not sure I follow. They share a half brother, but don’t have a direct blood connection themselves. Rand was worried about that, and consulted one of the noblewomen in Andor about it, only to discover that the high houses of Andor have no actual blood connections. They call each other cousins, but the connections are so far back as to be meaningless. Nine generations or more.
In other words, Rand’s mom was not related by blood to Elayne’s mom or dad. Rand’s mom was married to Elayne’s dad, before either of them were born. I don’t see how that’s incestuous.
@48: I was under the impression that Rand’s mum was pregnant by Elayne’s dad before going to the waste… I don’t remember that being specifically refuted, but my memory isn’t perfect. I also remember Rand being told not to worry, but nothing specific about the conversation or any revelations of parenthood. May be my mistake, but that was what I remembered of it.
@47: I’d rather not cut anyone out at all, but I also know some characters will have to go/ be consolidated into others and I could understand removing Min. It’s certainly easier than removing some others, as her abilities and influence can be translated to the abilities of others fairly simply. I would also expect Birgitte to be relegated to her position as a Hero of the Horn (presuming we even get that far!) though I would miss her mightily.
@49:
The timeline doesn’t work for that to be the case. Tigraine went into the Aiel Waste before the beginning of the Aeil War, which lasted four years. Rand was born on the last day of the Aiel War. That would have been a very, very long pregnancy indeed. Not to mention the fact that if Rand was the son of a Cairhienin Prince (Taringail Damodred, Moiraine’s first-cousin) and the Daughter-Heir of Andor (Tigraine Mantear), he wouldn’t look so much like an Aielman that everybody for the first three books kept “mistaking” him for one.
Rand’s father was Janduin, who was Clan Chief of the Taardad Aiel before Rhuarc. I would assume that they were close kin. Rhuarc tells Rand that Janduin was so grieved over losing Rand’s mom that he gave up being a Clan Chief and wandered into the Blight to fight shadowspawn until he died (sounds like Lan, before Moiraine, lol). While in the Blight, he came face to face with someone who looked just like Rand’s mom (this would be Luc/Isam/Slayer) and couldn’t bring himself to kill the man, and the man killed him instead. Although, how Rhuarc would know this if Janduin was wondering the Blight alone is a mystery. I suppose, like Lan, Janduin drew followers in his private war and wasn’t really alone all the time.
Either way, it was a good six year from the time Tigraine entered the Waste until Rand was born on the slopes of Dragonmount.
You have a very good point, Anthony, and my memory is definitely coming up a bit light on this subject… oh well. Just call me Goldfish.
Few of the actors in Game of Thrones or Outlander were familiar to me before they were in those series. If you have a great casting director, all will be well. It would be a mistake to try to force familiar faces into the roles just for name recognition. I think of this world more in terms of Europe/Asia/Africa — a melting pot with different characteristics more prevalent in different geographical regions. With the transportation limitations in this universe, it makes sense for different areas to have different demographics, and it seems to me this is the way Robert Jordan envisioned it. I have great hopes for this series!
Race doesn’t seem to be a big issue in Randland. People notice skin and hair color and might make a casual comment like, ‘Oh, you must be a borderlander’ but style of dress seems just as important in placing people. Rand’s height and coloring are slightly more problematic because his Aiel relatives invaded, killed and destroyed just twenty odd years ago. Otherwise the strongest reaction you’re likely to get if you differ significantly from the local population is curious looks, and maybe somebody striking up a conversation.
You guys saying get rid of the Seanchan are insane. If you do that, Mat is relegated to a minor char. The Mat chapters and especially the scenes with him and the Daughter of the Nine Moons are the best parts of this entire series. Insanity! Please don’t listen to these nuts! If anything could be cut it would be padan fain. I would not be the least bit surprised if they Tom Bombadil him and he never even makes an appearance.
@56, I could totally live with that.
Surprisingly (to me at least) I think I could accept no Fain, but I’d be curious to whom picks up the dropped plot points. Who’d lead the boys on their merry chase for the Horn? Fain is intrinsically linked to much of the horror elements and I wouldn’t want them to go. At least, not entirely. I don’t feel entirely uncomfortable losing Fain by comparison.
I doubt you get anymore than the first season of this, but regardless of that belief, how could anyone truly believe race isn’t important in thr series, at least when it comes to certain groups and people. Rand HAS to be tall, it is is a semi vital characteristic which also makes the Aiel have to be tall. Things like that aren’t a trait that some have said on here ” could be eliminated if the story was strong enough.” They are part of the story. I could care less about a large portion of the population and how they are depicted but there are certain characters that for the sake of the story need to be represented as they were in the series. Like it or not, Rand being tall forces the Aiel to heavily look one way too. Sure, play with it that’s fine but having Rand a five foot ten raven haired, hairy stout man and the Aiel a merry race of Dwarves would take away the story. Obviously core cities and regions would have a mostly healthy mix of people but the Aiel and certain other groups would definitely need to be leas diverse.
please, please do not F this up. make each book a season and more than 12 episodes. the more the better! make it page for page from the books and it will be perfect.
Also i cant wait!!!
If only. If only they could do 1episode:1chapter… but they just can’t. I will still love it. They’d have to really fudge it up for me to not, and i mean REALLY.